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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:04 pm 
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As we all know things can change quite easily in SS and players bought could be back on the market within a season, so why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to bid say £40m on a £2m player, knowing that the maximum they will get back for him would be £20m if they were lucky?? to me that just makes bad management part of the game.

Take youth players, a good one can go for £20m, and if trained into a star can go for around £30m on the AM if young enough, but now your going to tell everyone that they will only get £15m of that £30m back.. if thats the case then the market wont have any decent young players on it..

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:19 pm 
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Yes, how we balance up the rich v poor situation is a different matter. And somebody could say 'The selling club loses out this way' but A) They don't, since it's still the same limit and B) The selling club might not be poor.

So all this is doing is removing a limit from the game, a hidden one at that (terrible design). Whilst maintaining the cheat-proof aspect.

In response to Mike's comment, no, because if he's trained, his value will have gone up anyway. Why would they receive less. The 10x limit is 10x their value. It's actually very similar to what happens in SS1 right now (except in SS1 it's hidden). Surely your example would equally apply in SS1?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:24 pm 
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Because a players value doesnt make him worth any more on the market.. Take a couple of recent AM deals. An all bril was sold for £30m as that was what he was worth on the AM by other managers, not his value, yet now your saying the selling club would of only got £15m. I have an all bril on their now and if he goes for say £6m (as hes older) then i would only get £3m of that.. not being funny but i wouldn't bother even putting players on the AM if that was the case.. i would just train them up and keep them all until they were into there late 30's and get max Cash for them

bad idea really.. need to think of another way of doing it, sorry

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Whilst I still think this is a bad idea (think that my opinion is obvious by now :lol: ) your maths doesn't work Mike. You would still be getting say 10 times the value, just nothing past that so if a player was worth £2mill and sold for £6mill now you would still get all of it for example. You seem to have decided we lose half the money, that isn't what Glynn is saying.

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(189T)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:29 pm 
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Think im getting confused here, (still think its a bad idea though), So you would get 10 x his value and not half of the bid? So if someone stupidiy bids £30m for a £2m player the seller would still get £20m?

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Prestatyn Town WPL10
Colwyn Bay WPL61
Bala Town WPL32


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:40 pm 
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Exactly

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(189T)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Yes, you'll get 10x his value at most (same as SS1, ish). You seem to have thought I meant 50%, which I think we can all agree would be extremely bad :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:20 pm 
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Yeah i would agree :lol:

Still dont see the point in it though.. Why anyone would bid that much for a player, and more importantly the seller would be rather annoyed to lose money if the supply and demand goes up.. depending where you set the limit, and always going on about the richer managers being better off than the poorer. If by chance a poor seller had such a player and they lost potential money, i cant see anyone being happy with that

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Bala Town WPL32


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:25 pm 
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But then it's the same in SS1 anyway. Right now, he CAN'T get more than 10x (approx) because it's capped at that. So the only difference is that the seller would now see it and perhaps be unhappy (which is why it needs to be explained if it happens).

In SS1 right now, if somebody hits the hidden cap, their bid is just ignored. Which might LOOK better for the seller but isn't so good for the buyers who might have lost out on a player because they went £1k over an unknown cap. Which I think is far worse, because it's totally random and you're losing out through no fault of your own.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:37 pm 
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Glynn wrote:
But then it's the same in SS1 anyway. Right now, he CAN'T get more than 10x (approx) because it's capped at that. So the only difference is that the seller would now see it and perhaps be unhappy (which is why it needs to be explained if it happens).

In SS1 right now, if somebody hits the hidden cap, their bid is just ignored. Which might LOOK better for the seller but isn't so good for the buyers who might have lost out on a player because they went £1k over an unknown cap. Which I think is far worse, because it's totally random and you're losing out through no fault of your own.


So basically what your saying is that your going against what you dislike in SS and giving the richer teams a helping hand in buying all the best players, as they would now beable to bid over the existing limit to get the player.. yep that would work really well :lol:

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Bala Town WPL32


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Of course the other option, which would please everybody, including me, on the surface at least, is to completely remove the limit. If cheating didn't exist, that's exactly what I'd do. I'd remove all limits from all deals. But sadly, whilst cheating is a possibility, it will probably happen from time to time and it causes massive problems when it does. Nobody is happy with the results when I reverse things for example and nobody agrees on what should be done.

In this case I'm tempted to say I could just remove all limits and the players can just keep their eyes out for laundering / cheating / transferring money. The problem with cheating in general is that people rarely agree on what cheating really is. Some people, especially brand new managers, think it's ok, for example to help out their smaller team with their larger team. I understand that, it doesn't 'feel' like cheating to me either, but it does cause problems (e.g to the managers of other small teams in that small team's division). I try to explain that managers should see all teams as totally separate and should never help their own teams in ANY way. Everybody knows this now, but new managers often don't and walk into problems.

Bear in mind that this idea is 2 lines of code and removing it is a case of adding two ' to the code. Changing it to SS1 style would just require 2 lines extra. So it's all changeable. Since this situation very rarely arises, this is probably unimportant.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Glynn wrote:
In SS1 right now, if somebody hits the hidden cap, their bid is just ignored. Which might LOOK better for the seller but isn't so good for the buyers who might have lost out on a player because they went £1k over an unknown cap. Which I think is far worse, because it's totally random and you're losing out through no fault of your own.


I would wager no one ever has gone over the cap and had their bid stopped so using that as an example at all is misleading.

Whether the bid is limited to 10x, 9x, 11x etc no one has ever had a bid stopped for going above that (simply because no one is going to have bid that high on a player based on their value).

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(189T)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:43 pm 
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Yes but honestly, I don't think they're doing themselves any favours by bidding 100x on a player, or even 10x. If a rich clubs pay out £20M for a £1M player, they're just throwing money away, which suits me fine :P

Also, this particular limit (the SS1 version) wasn't added for that reason. It was added purely to stop cheating. The situation with rich clubs, although it was actually worse in the '90's, only started to bother me about a decade ago when I really started to notice it (more as a possibility than anything tangible).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:45 pm 
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I'm fairly sure they have, at least twice, though the managers may have been mistaken. I remember two examples of people telling me that they'd bid high and their bid was ignored. I never looked into it so it may have been due to lack of funds or possibly a bug (one sounded like a bug because he told me the numbers and it was only about 10x and I'm fairly sure the limit at that time was about 9.5x).

Still, it can happen and almost certainly will at some point. And in SS1, it would be equally annoying. In the two examples above, I just told them that they'd run into the limit and they accepted it - not that they had any choice :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Like you say if you remove the limits, then that just opens the door which needs to stay shut.. but your idea will help the richer sides buy the better players as they can bid even more..

I think it would be better as it is now to be honest. not great but it works, as no one really cheats, sellers get all the Cash, and if a rich team bids over the limit then it gives other teams a fighting chance of getting players, if the richer sides can bid over the limit i can see people losing interest in certain aspects of the game, which is not something you want to happen

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Prestatyn Town WPL10
Colwyn Bay WPL61
Bala Town WPL32


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