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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:23 pm 
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Glynn wrote:

Also shouldn't tonight's turn be in by now? I only changed the amount of FP's, but it might have broken something, although I don't have any errors.


You know the turn at the weekend is on a Sunday and today is Saturday ? :lol: :lol:

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Glynn wrote:
Selling a young player for excessive amounts would work yes. That's about the only scenario I can imagine. I don't see the need to sell your BEST players to raise money for anything though, that's my point. I routinely sell 'good' players but they're not going to make it into my squad. That money can then be used for bidding or building. I definitely have noticed a huge amount of money in the game, pretty much since day 1, but the idea was to filter it out with this.


You don't see the need but many managers do see that need as most managers don't play the game the way you do, or indeed see it the way you do (that is a compliment to the coding for the record). If "your" way was the definitive way to play then I would have expected a) fewer complaints at this suggestion and b) far more success from your teams (rather than basically nothing ever :wink: :P :lol: :lol: ).

But on a serious point just how much is too much ? If managers have bought everything they can, facilities all at 10's, enormous grounds etc with a squad with enormous wages and still have loads left then yes I would agree.

However, the reality is you are just seeing managers not spending their money on the ground, larger waged players (as few exist due to the very slow training improvements) etc and keeping the money until they can see something they want to spend it on.

With more incentives to do the ground etc money would go. Likewise if the £ 50k pw cap on trainers was removed more money would go (not advocating that as I like that challenge but just making the point that there are other ways of reducing money that doesn't remove the fun of getting a big bid).

Looking at the AM post in this area during the creation and testing at no point was this even considered and you even talked of the excitement of seeing a player we have get a big bid (at the stage when live biding was happening instead of blind bidding). That vanishes completely.

Plenty of times a manager has listed great players when they don't even need the money just because it is part of managing a club to not waste time paying big wages if the great player doesn't actually perform for your team. It isn't as simple as only listing great players when lacking funds.

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:58 pm 
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'Too much' may be objective, but in this case, it would be when you have so much money that it becomes moot. I definitely did / do want the auctions to be the main drain of money as those are competitive, whereas spending your money within your club isn't. If the money was drained to a balance within the club then I'd have to make some fairly major changes. That would also mean almost no money left over for bidding other than players you sell. That would work but it would be incredibly difficult to balance without an active role (i.e it would need constant tweaking).

The AM as I'm describing it solves all problems. It doesn't matter at all how much you make as you can drain it away again on large bids. I COULD add other ways to drain your money but I don't think that would be fun or make any sense. Let's say I just make some bill extremely high each week so that you never have much money to play with and therefore bids would never be particularly high. That would in turn mean that maybe managers would have to start selling players to raise money for bids. Which in itself would work and could be fun but then you're back to the cheating problem.....


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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:02 pm 
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The assumption being of course that we will still bid big on players listed on the market when it is just as likely that managers won't list players and those that are listed won't get the big bids they currently do simply because a manager won't want so much of their balance disappearing with no visible means to recoup a decent amount in the future...

Plus if teams are making large money already (which they must be as at some point they didn't have the money so it didn't originally come from AM listings) then it would behoove them to just focus on their youth team and international scout and ignore the AM altogether. Then the funds go nowhere.

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:18 pm 
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As for the AM, i have had a couple of big bids, recently i spent £10m on a player that would benefit my team (i recall someone has just bid £30m on a player) it might take a bit to get the money back, which is why we sell players who we think maybe getting a bit old or just isnt doing anything for us to recoup the money.

Dont forget we are only in seasons 5 (i think) so the money is only just starting to build up to an amount where we can bid big amounts on the generated foreign players (ie; £10/£30m). i remember buying one for about £7m near the start, i imagine now that player would cost far more due to teams having a bit more cash to make bidding competitive

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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:47 pm 
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Yeah ,you are assuming we all have big bank balances, I have two teams, one has a decent amount in the bank because I have been outbid/haven't found the right player. The other doesn't have much cos' I've bought a couple of players, but I wouldn't say (judging of my teams anyway) that the game is awash with cash.

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Barton Blitz......WPL 53 Wigan Wildcats....Opal 58
Swinton Pirates ....ELZ 24 Dinamo Petrovac....ELZ 54
Manchester Dragons...RH 17 Stonefield Cobras ...RH 26 SLFA Cup Winners 2016
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:42 pm 
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A couple of things mentioned earlier that I do agree with. Mike made the point that you could sell, for example, a really good 16 year old and get about £20M for him and in return, probably buy 4 or 5 much better 33/34 year olds. That sort of thing makes perfect sense and it would a shame to lose that.

I also do agree that, for now at least, I should add the extra foreign players (going to try 5 a week for now) and see how it settles.

I still don't see any other solution for the cheating though and without a solution, the game is bound to suffer. Theoretically, I could kick people out for cheating in the future but the idea was for the game to run itself. Mind you, it's not like the odd intervention is going to strain me :p


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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:20 pm 
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Just have the rule that managers cant bid on their own players.

If there was a managers list posted up and updated say once a month, then the managers themselves can police it (as some do now in SS1).. Simples :)

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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 pm 
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Yep, as long as we know who manages who it should be simple enough. If you, Glynn, can produce a list I am happy to format and post it etc each month or so

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:43 am 
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That's the only solution right now. It does mean that we're in an SS1 situation where someone has to monitor it and I have to manually punish offenders. And right now I have no idea how to produce a list, it will require some programming. Sigh, sigh, sigh. But no Rob, as far as I know, there hasn't been any cheating at all in SS2 so far. But there will be. There are people in SS2 who came to join SS1, didn't play, but stayed in SS2. We can't expect them all to obey the rules or to read the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:39 am 
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Yep, I can certainly vouch for that. There are some I wouldn't trust under ANY circumstances and if they come on here and even see this thread it will be the first step in them thinking of how to cheat (which I have no doubt they are already trying to do).

Monitoring is easy enough, not enough going on on the market to be that hard to check once we know who manages who, just a shame you have to do more programming, sorry.

Technically we only need a list of who has more than one team as two teams or more are needed to cheat if that helps at all.

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:37 am 
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jelly wrote:
I don't like the idea. The only benefit is to stop cheating. You either drop second teams or maybe let it police itself. No one would risk it. Or name teams: Oxted Utd (JohnLG) so people can see who bought and sold.


Rather than make a list, couldn't the AM be programmed to show manager name after club like I suggested earlier?

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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:46 am 
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Glynn had already thought of this and dismissed it as he thought managers might not like it . Must admit I wouldn't simply because it would look messy and for the sake of having a list of managers, which we should have anyway, it feels like overkill.

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:23 pm 
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Yeah that would be much easier but I agree with Rich in that it'd be messy and seems a bit .... invasive. On the other hand, since that seems to be the stumbling block here and is definitely the easier solution, I'm half tempted. If I was to do it the other way, it would require regular work on my part, i.e creating the list (I'd need a program to do that, although that won't take too long) but then sending the list to Rich or someone.

An alternative might be to have a program which shows the list on a webpage (i.e like the turnsheet itself). So if you want to see the teams/users, you just visit that webpage and it'd auto-update. That kinda solves both problems I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Auction market.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Way late to this thread, but I have to agree an Auction does suggest you place something or someone on it in the hope of gaining more than it may be worth, as a collection of bidders may drive the price above it's natural value.

I have to say I do not actively manage my one team in SS2 and I have recently struggled for money. I'm clearly doing something wrong if others are finding they have excess, I literally recently thought about selling some of my better players in the hope of resurrecting my very dwindled funds.. Especially as I couldn't even sign a mediocre Foreign find this week.

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Scrubs OPAL20
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