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 Post subject: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:25 am 
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Happiness in players is not very well understood and may seem fairly pointless or even broken. It is a fairly weak rating but actually it does it's job, though it's very simplistic.

One misconception is that happiness and morale are closely related, but actually they're not. There is some minor affect on morale but it's quite small and morale rockets up far faster through other actions, such as training and match results. It may have some impact in the early weeks of the season when you're rushing up to max morale, but I couldn't say for sure if it's noticeable.

Happiness, unlike morale, has no affect on match ratings. It's purely for deciding whether or not the player will sign a new contract. A rating of 250 will mean he'll sign a 1 year contract. 500 = 2 years, 750 = 3 years and 1000 = 4 years (the max). Only two things will affect a player's happiness - wages and match appearances. Unlike other ratings in the game, there is no limit at all on how much happiness can rise or fall in a single week. I can't remember the exact figure, but for every £X above or below the wage that the player EXPECTS to be paid, he'll gain or lose a point of rating. If for example it's £100 per rating and the player expects to be paid £5,000 per week, but you pay him £6,000, then he'll gain 10 points of happiness per week. Ideally, you'd want to be paying your players the exact amount that they expect, just enough to keep them happy enough to sign a new contract.

There has been an obscure bug since the game was written where a player would be at 1 happiness (the minimum) for reasons that I couldn't fathom, but I think Rich has solved it. When a 17 year old signs up as a pro in a new season, he'll be paid £250 per week, which will probably be thousands less than he expected. If my guess of £100 per rating above was correct, and the player has been paid £10,000 less than he expected, he'll lose 100 points on the first week of his pro career. If it's not corrected fast, he may reach the lower limit. This has probably gone unnoticed most of the time, since he has a contract anyway and people will correct his wages shortly afterwards. By the time he's ready for a new contract next season, his happiness has probably already risen back above 250, especially if he's been getting games. I plan on fixing this, if it is indeed the reason for the bug, although I've never seen it affect anybody anyway.

Incidentally, for those who are thinking that they could get away with paying very low wages, but also playing the player, enough to keep him happy, it's a fairly fine line. You could probably get away with paying a player a few hundred pounds less than his expected wages, perhaps £1,000 or so, but you'd run the risk of his happiness dropping below the point where he'll not sign a new contract. Even worse, if you then dropped him for a match and didn't boost his wages, you may end up with a player who won't sign. It's definitely safer to pay a player slightly too much than not enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:16 am 
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I think these threads are an excellent idea, thank you Glynn. Once they are established, perhaps you could encourage those non-forum users to come and join us?

I think the happiness of youths is a bit annoying, especially if you are challenging for a higher place in the youth league, where you want your best players to play every game, only to have to promote them to the first team early (which has the benefit of being able to play them in week 1, of course). Perhaps the default £250 could be increased to have a lesser affect? When FPs sign they get a sensible first wage. This principle could also be applied to AM signings, where the selling manager is being so tight they reduce the wage to £250 at the point of listing, just to save 4 weeks of higher wages. I make a point of not bidding on any such players, from those managers - when I sign a player I'd like them to arrive content not moaning immediately.

A question, Glynn: does the happiness of an individual have any affect on the happiness of others in the squad, or is it solely for the sake of his own contract renewals, as I think you imply?

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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:22 am 
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Never heard of anyone reducing the wages of a player they were AM'ing. Have seen players being placed on the market turning 18 and being on £250 a week because of the system which I think is what you are actually seeing.

Certainly wouldn't stop me bidding on a player because of their listed wage but on behalf of the rest of us thank you for not bidding as that makes one less manager to compete with :)

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:30 am 
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I should add before you give examples I am guessing regarding the wages bit as frankly never taken any notice of it (as I am sure most managers don't so all credit to you for looking that bit closer) :)

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:32 am 
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I think some managers do it for every player... it annoys me, so I try and stick to my principles that it isn't in the right spirit of the game. Mind you, I don't have any money to bid with anyway, so your chances of success are increased by a percent or two :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:32 am 
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Charscot wrote:
I should add before you give examples I am guessing regarding the wages bit as frankly never taken any notice of it (as I am sure most managers don't so all credit to you for looking that bit closer) :)


Yeah, don't worry, I wasn't going to post, as it would incriminate the unworthy :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:54 am 
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Charscot wrote:
Never heard of anyone reducing the wages of a player they were AM'ing. Have seen players being placed on the market turning 18 and being on £250 a week because of the system which I think is what you are actually seeing.



Apologies. I am completely and utterly 100% wrong having received examples now from someone who won't be named (thank you). Poor anti-social behaviour on the part of that seller in my opinion to cause the next owner an issue for the sake of saving a few grand.



Charscot wrote:
Certainly wouldn't stop me bidding on a player because of their listed wage but on behalf of the rest of us thank you for not bidding as that makes one less manager to compete with :)


I am now re-thinking this as the seller is clearly happy to mess up others and I am not sure I want to be sending my money their way in future (and I have won a fair few of their players over time - which shows how unobservant I have been about their wages alteration at the point of listing !! :oops: :oops: :lol: ).

Good info to learn, thanks to John for his post here and the manager who pm'ed myself.

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:04 pm 
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I'm gonna have to have a look too as a bit unsporting maybe to do that. Especially for the sake of what it would actually save them.

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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:52 am 
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In answer to the question above (sorry, didn't realise there had been replies to this), no, the happiness of a player doesn't rub off on the other players. It's something I dabbled with in various rewrites but not in SS.


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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:06 am 
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Good day everyone, hope you are all smiles & sunshine.

Having only registered to the forum this week, but having read this post a wee while back, I would expect the guilt pointing is towards myself because it is something I have always actively done.

I fully stand by the decision, and will split this into two rambling parts to hopefully explain why:

1 - It's a game. At no stage until reading this did I realise a player happiness could be affected by more than a week if salary was reduced. If I made a pretend player cry a baby bit, and the purchaser didn't take immediate action to rectify - could I care less anyway? no I could not. I don't want the player anymore, so why invest? Would you want me to also possibly train the possible skill '+' prior to sale? because no badger is going to do that. Until the email client program was introduced, a player was on sale until sold, sometimes excessive weeks, unless you were prepared to take a hit and sell at a loss of value. So that is where my decision was made and will remain, unless Glynn decides otherwise.

2 - Fundamentals around money - I live in the British Supreme league, established with a merger between a similar valued but quite established low manager involvement league, which was simplified decades ago to meet Glynn's needs as a business man.

Because the British Supreme is now an affluent well established league, I would doubt that many actually pay attention to the design that the program was made to encourage improvement over a long period. For my sins I've grown up in a finance world, and would consider nothing worse than to neglect it. Have many people thought about the time, preperation and planning which went into team legacies that they have inherited?

The original Soccerstar program I believe was completed on an Amiga 600. Turnsheets were returned hand written by the legends of Mick & Maureen. Money in the game at outset was unbelievably harsh. You were given players based on a ranking up to 7, and you allocated them where you saw fit. Trading of players, managing finances, upgrading stadia, them ultimately progressing as a team to attract better is & was football whether it's made up or not.

I took over bottomed out Luckless Wanderers in the British Supreme countless years ago. They had at best a £40000 income from home fixtures, a weekly expenditure of around £100000, and a debt of nearly £2 million. They are now a beast and still growing. I can't speak for other leagues in progress as I haven't been part of them. But I do hope there are some out there at 'basic' stage which possibly Glynn should promote, to encourage the sense of pride you create from a carcass, and then stay with it because it's your home.

Sir Andrew Kelly of Acham Down fame is a person to be admired. Known by name only with utmost respect for many many years. Do people really think that the sudden surge into power (not yet results), a recent fantastic, sometimes over expensive explosion of building a squad I myself have lost track of, wasn't planned? Mr Kelly & Acham Down will in the next few seasons drive us all nuts with his radical tactics & formations - It's a game. When the occasional wierdo plays COD online, do they think aaah he's got a better gun than me, I'll let him shoot me?

So I'll sumarise, that in my opinion the will to survive is greater than the will to succeed, and that too many teams have been inherited into a position where basics are no longer thought about.

Wishing you all well
Chris G


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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:29 am 
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Hard to know how to reply to aspects of your post as some of it has nothing to do with player happiness, and the bit that does I am not entirely sure what point you are actually trying to make in all honesty.

Regarding point 1. A player's happiness can be affected if salary is reduced below what is considered a fair rate. That bit in bold is fundamentally important. If you get a player in a deal etc they will tend to arrive overpaid when coming from another league due to the drop in their value for ageing a year. Reducing that player's wage will not affect his happiness. Reducing it below what is considered the fair rate by the system (which is explained in faqs how to work out) is what will affect the happiness, not just any reduction.

Fundamentals of money in the game is not really meant to be in this thread but everyone is aware of the disparity in terms of how the game has changed over the years (although for the record the addition of the client did not affect player sales in the way you claim, the only thing that changed player sales was the introduction of the Auction market, which pre-dates the client by a number of years), be it in terms of money generated or the player's skills themselves.

The latter changed thanks to the introduction of the individual player trainers back in '99. This did have a partial knock on effect on finances as players became more valuable, generating more income within the game.

Glynn is very wary regarding finances as any tweak can have big consequences and there is no doubt that it is easier to generate larger sums of money (Andrew Kelly's balance is nothing compared to some managers playing the game !) but any tweak could have very adverse effects and whilst it is easy for some/many (take your pick) to make money there are still some/many (again take your pick) who constantly bemoan their inability to make money. So say reducing some of the effects of income generation may curb the more fiscally rich clubs it could literally destroy other clubs, and that is not an acceptable option as that will lose managers.

The problem with the BS is actually that it has been on it's last legs for the best part of a decade now. Glynn has already tried to close it once, going so far as to have a number of teams transfer out to other leagues so it could be closed, but a handful of managers (including yourself) have kept it going and that is great for the few that are active and enjoy that league.

I don't agree that basics aren't thought about. You presumably are just judging based on a handful of BS managers, all of whom have been playing the game for many years, where building a club should be a finished challenge by now. I would accept that building a squad may well be front and centre initially but the club itself still requires work, but probably not as much work as it should in fairness to your point.

I would agree (if this is what you meant as it isn't clear) if you mean too many managers are gifted the basic tools of a club (potential following, team rating - attack on defence and setpiece/corner, size of ground) without putting the effort or thought in. Culling of squads is as severe as it has ever been so managers do have to work at the squad considerably but personally I would like to see potential following reset, grounds reduced back to a more basic level and team ratings reset to say double good so there is room for improvement rather than automatic gifting of other's hard work.

However, that is not really a discussion for this thread and in fairness to Glynn he has discussed doing all of these often but the priority has been getting the level of culling right (and he still isn't happy with that so the rest takes a back seat for now). :)

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:40 pm 
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I still love you Rich, so please don't take any words the wrong way

I'm merely making a statement in reply to something posted nearly 12 years ago. The fact that you don't agree with the contents or how it was compiled is up to you and everyone else.

Best regards
Chris G


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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:16 pm 
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?????????????

This thread isn't even two months old :)

If you are replying to something posted nearly 12 years ago maybe posting there or referencing specifics to whatever you are replying to (do you even remember the specifics of a nearly 12 year old post - impressive if you do ??) may help as it isn't this area as it is barely two months old so hard to know exactly what you are talking about (in the nicest possible way).

I only disagreed with a factual error (the client changing transfers, it didn't, simple fact) and clarified the comment re player happiness as without the bit I added in bold your statement was wrong as you made it sound like ALL player wage reductions negatively affect player happiness and they don't.

I agree to a point re club building needing to be important, and whilst you think it is lost I think it is just something that managers do over time but after a number of years there shouldn't be (if a manager does their job properly) anything about the club itself to build up outside of the squad itself.

Really not having a go Chris, but your comments as you say are referencing something posted nearly 12 years ago but no one knows what you are referring to and without that it just appears to be some comments out of left field. :D

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CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:34 pm 
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chris g wrote:

Having only registered to the forum this week, but having read this post a wee while back, I would expect the guilt pointing is towards myself because it is something I have always actively done.



Hi Chris,
I'm delighted my observation has got a response from a guilty party :P For the record, I wasn't really aiming my comment at you in particular, but I had noticed a few managers taking that decision to reduce wages. Shame on you for doing so :evil: :wink: but you are, of course, within your rights to do so. I probably won't buy your players though, just so you know, because I don't agree with that approach. We are both playing within the rules and exercising our rights to make choices. :)
Now, let's forget any potential unpleasantness, and get yourself a nice new team in the NSA. A super league, with a great history. Or one of those duff teams at the bottom of the Robin Hood!
John

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 Post subject: Re: Player Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:43 pm 
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chris g wrote:
Have many people thought about the time, preperation and planning which went into team legacies that they have inherited?


Quote:
I do hope there are some out there at 'basic' stage which possibly Glynn should promote, to encourage the sense of pride you create from a carcass, and then stay with it because it's your home.


These two parts I do agree with, Chris, completely. Whilst it takes a long time to build up a good following (which I think some teams got through 'rewards' or 'competitions' from people running ss, rather than purely by results), the other aspects of ground improvements are important in that long term vision that you, and may others, have.

There are plenty of bare carcass teams out there and there are a number of teams that have been taken on for that very challenge. Would you like to do it all over again? Seriously, come and join me - I've taken on a new team in the third division of the RH with that kind of view. Now you are an active member of the forum, I have a feeling you'll be good at getting some banter going :P :lol:

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