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 Post subject: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:45 am 
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Myself and Rich have been going over this for a while now and I think that it should be open for discussion in case we've missed something or people have differing opinions.

This issue is referring to the computer picking players on your behalf, firstly when filling a squad that you haven't filled and secondly when bringing on subs.

A problem has been cropping up for quite a while now where the computer is trying to be 'too intelligent' for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I just thought that it would be better if the computer always tried to pick the 'best' player based on their ratings alone, unlike SS1 where it will pick firstly on 'position' and THEN on ratings. This means that in SS2, if you have a defender rated 3/5/3/5/3 and a midfielder rated 7/4/7/4/7 and it wants to find the best defender, it might pick the midfielder anyway because his ratings are better overall (defenders do do more than just tackling and heading, so it's considering the other ratings too). This sounds sensible but I can see why it's causing confusion because people are in the SS1 mindset where a defender is a defender, regardless of his ratings. In SS2, I wanted to loosen this restriction a bit so that a defender is only a defender on paper (i.e on your turnsheet), but playing him in midfield is no problem. In SS1, this caused a lot of problems, firstly with players being valued based on their position and secondly when trying to play a player 'out of position', which is a horrible and clunky issue in SS1. So now in SS2, he's free to play anywhere and he's valued on his ratings alone, so 'position' is just a visual thing.

There was also an issue in SS1 where the program would freeze a lot in the old days because it couldn't find a defender (i.e there were none spare). Because it could only look at defenders, it got stuck and it couldn't look at the other players because, well, they're not defenders. In SS1 I had various clunky botch-fixes to stop the matches from freezing, something that I've avoided with SS2. In SS1, you'll still see occasional stupid formations where a team has been unmanaged for years, it only has 10 defenders so it's playing 10-0-0. It simply can't put the defenders in midfield because it doesn't work like that in SS1. In SS2, what it would do is, it'd pick a 4-4-2 anyway, by picking the best 4 defenders in defence, then the rest would be forced into Mid and attack (which is still better than playing a 10-0-0).

This is working fine in SS2 and it's not frozen once and I'm happy with how it's working. However, the issue has now cropped up where it's basically over-riding your choices because it's deciding that it's smarter than you are (this is probably how the Terminator got started in his career). This is bad because if you've selected a player as a defender, you want him to come on as a defender, not as a midfielder. Even if you made a stupid choice, it's still your choice and the computer shouldn't be interfering. And referring to the issue of experience, yes, a player will gain more experience from matches based on what he's done, so if you play him up front, he's more likely to gain shooting ratings as he's more likely to take more shots. You might want this to happen because you're trying to develop a player who currently doesn't 'look like an attacker' into an attacker.

Of course, I don't want to go back to the SS1 issues so what I tried to do is 'weight' the players. When looking for a defender, it'll weight his tackling and heading much higher (currently 2x). This means that it always finds a defender, even if you have him declared as an attacker, meaning that it won't freeze up and it won't end up playing stupid formations. The problem is, again, that you've declared him as an attacker and you want him in attack, whether the computer agrees with you or not.

So a simple solution that I'm mulling over is just weighting a player by a million or so, based on your chosen position for him. This will mean that if you've put a 1/2/1/2/1 rated 'defender' on the bench and there's a 10/10/10/10/10 'midfielder' also on the bench and the computer is looking for a defender, it'll still choose the 1/2/1/2/1 'defender' because that's how you've selected it. Of course, should there be no 'defender' at all, it'll still be able to fall back onto that 10/10/10/10/10 guy and put him in defence if it has no other choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Love The Terminator reference ;-)

Think this solution is great, hopefully others will agree or point out the blazingly obvious aspect I/we have missed :-)

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:39 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Dibden Purlieu, Southampton
Sounds good. We will see tonight :)

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Dave
SHEPS SS ARMY

Manx Town (WPL64)
Inter Southampton (OPAL24) Yth Lge champs S9,S31,S32 SLFA cup winners S15
Wight Wanderers (OPAL5)
Southampton Sity (OPAL15) SLFA Cup winners S20 Joosters winner S24 Div 3 champs S25
Sylvan Lake (OPAL17) Div 1 champs S19,S29 SLFA cup winners S32
The Islanders (OPAL25)Yth Lge champs S25
Southern Vipers (OPAL48)
Yth Lge champs S24 Joosters winners S31
The Vale (NSA2)
Saints of Southampton (MOA11)


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:46 pm 
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I love your confidence in my work ethic Dave, like this is going to be immediately implemented.

Luckily, I'm in the mood and it should hopefully be a simple fix so I'm going to get cracking now, so maybe we will see tonight :P


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:57 pm 
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I thought Dave had lost the plot lol

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
WILLOUGHBY HUSKIES.................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(177T)
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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:31 pm
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I 'think' it's done already. It's quite a simple solution and it 'should' work as intended but it may need a bit of testing. I've run it through my offline league and it seems fine so instead of wasting hours doing in-depth testing, I'll just add it to our main league and hopefully you guys should be able to spot if it's working or not. Testing is boring and I'm fairly sure this will work out so I'll get cracking on the youth-control issue instead, which is a much bigger job.


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:00 pm 
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My offline test-league just threw up a strange situation, which you won't normally see but gives you an idea of the things I need to think about. I'd left my test-team with the youth scouts looking for attackers and it's been like that for about 5 seasons. I only just noticed that the youth squad now consists of nothing but about 50 attackers. So when I ran this new calculation, it was putting attackers in for defenders and I thought 'Doh, it doesn't work'. But actually, that hopefully goes to show that it does work in the fall-back cases, because in this case, it had absolutely no choice since there are literally nothing but attackers to choose from. For the first and reserve squads, it seems to be picking correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 8:39 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Dibden Purlieu, Southampton
Charscot wrote:
I thought Dave had lost the plot lol


Its the heat Rich :)

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Dave
SHEPS SS ARMY

Manx Town (WPL64)
Inter Southampton (OPAL24) Yth Lge champs S9,S31,S32 SLFA cup winners S15
Wight Wanderers (OPAL5)
Southampton Sity (OPAL15) SLFA Cup winners S20 Joosters winner S24 Div 3 champs S25
Sylvan Lake (OPAL17) Div 1 champs S19,S29 SLFA cup winners S32
The Islanders (OPAL25)Yth Lge champs S25
Southern Vipers (OPAL48)
Yth Lge champs S24 Joosters winners S31
The Vale (NSA2)
Saints of Southampton (MOA11)


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Bit more tweaking, I'm going with 5x for main-rating weightings for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 555
Ok, that clearly didn't work because now it's not bringing on subs at all. Odd, because it was fine in my offline tests. I'll look into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Rating weightings
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 555
Hopefully fixed. I think the huge numbers were throwing it off. Positioning weight is now x100. Should still be ample to ensure players play in the positions you've designated. Will have to wait until tomorrow to see if it starts bringing on subs again but it's working fine in my tests now.


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