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 Post subject: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:54 pm 
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I'm sure I did a post on this already, but I can't see it now.

So, I'm already fairly fixed on a simple points system of 3 yellow cards = 1 match ban. 1 red card = 3 match ban.

What I'm not sure about, is if they should be squad-wide bans, or competition bans, and if they should run into a new season. So if a player gets a 3 match ban in a cup, should the ban be for that squad, e.g count towards league matches, or should he be banned for the next 3 matches in that competition only?

And should bans be blanked for new seasons (I'm assuming not).

It's probably easier for me to have a competition-only ban system, but squads is fine.

Oh and do bans carry over after transfers, i.e the new club still has to wait out the ban? I'm assuming they do.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Suspensions always carry on post-transfer, and in fact across countries so makes no sense not to have bans carry across after a transfer :)

I would say any ban has to be completed regardless of the week in which it was to start so if it carries into a new season then so be it, they miss the start of the new season. You could always have a point in the season where points accrued after that date don't count towards a points ban (so you couldn't get banned for say going over 21 points after that point and the only bans would be for red cards). Have a cut off of say week 26 so the last 5 matches can only result in suspensions for re cards, will stop a lot of unnecessary last gasp suspensions and will reflect real football too.

I always preferred competition wide bans (ie if red carded in the league you can play in the cup and vice versa) with only the exceeding 21 points suspending from all upcoming games. But I can imagine a squad wise ban is probably less confusing to managers, who won't have to concern themselves with what comp a player is banned from, he is just banned.

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:33 pm 
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That's a good point about the confusion, when you have 3 competitions for the first team (league and 2 cups). It would be pretty easy to forget by the next round of the cup that the guy is suspended. Having said that, he won't even show up on the line-up, so I suppose you'd soon remember.

On the other hand, I like the simplest option of bans for the competition that you were sent off in. It feels easier all round, you're sent off in the SLFA cup, you can't play in the SLFA for 3 games (half tempted to make it 2 for cups, but meh).


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Re : the transfers, sounds right. As for the new season.... tempted to say the same thing, just go with the simplest option, which is you serve your 3 match suspension, regardless of which week it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:35 pm 
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There is the option with the new season of just blanking all suspensions though..... pretty straightforward, just not sure if it's fair, though I suppose it affects everybody equally.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:42 pm 
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I think a lack of new season suspensions carrying over from the previous one may encourage teams to be now physical in end of season games with no threat of a suspension but for me it just feels right to carry then over.

I think players not being listed as available with no explanation will cause more confusion for some than trying to remember which comp a player is suspended for. :-)

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Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:46 pm 
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Location: Dibden Purlieu, Southampton
Injuries carry over and so should bans.

SS1 does not have enough bookings/bans or at least not in my experience

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SHEPS SS ARMY

Manx Town (WPL64)
Inter Southampton (OPAL24) Yth Lge champs S9,S31,S32 SLFA cup winners S15
Wight Wanderers (OPAL5)
Southampton Sity (OPAL15) SLFA Cup winners S20 Joosters winner S24 Div 3 champs S25
Sylvan Lake (OPAL17) Div 1 champs S19,S29 SLFA cup winners S32
The Islanders (OPAL25)Yth Lge champs S25
Southern Vipers (OPAL48)
Yth Lge champs S24 Joosters winners S31
The Vale (NSA2)


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Yeah, I intend to fix it so that there are a realistic number of bans and injuries. Right now, there are too many in SS2, but it's a balancing issue. Since you have 3 squads and 6 competitions to juggle, but also larger squads, I can use a realistic amount of injuries / suspensions.

Re : disciplinary points. Why was the old system of 7 points for a yellow used? i.e You get a ban at 21, so 3 x 7? Can't it just be 1 or 2 yellows on the list, then you know that the 3rd = 1 match ban? Having said that, I'm used to 7 / 21 myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:54 pm 
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Err it's 3 points for a yellow, 7 for a red so you need 7 bookings for a ban not 3. :) Clearly you aren't that used to it :wink: :P :lol:

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Cheers
Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:04 pm 
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Oh yeah. That seems a bit lenient really, but is that the official way it's done (i.e in the Premier and so on?)

Re : the visual aspect. You also need to bear in mind that a manager may take over a team when a player is already suspended, so he'll have no idea that a suspension is coming up. That could cause a serious problem is, for example, a cup final is coming up and he thinks his squad is ready, only to find out on the selection page that his best striker isn't available.

So I'm thinking that suspensions need to be shown in 3 places - 1) Below the selection (the player won't be shown on the selection, but he'll be mentioned below, e.g 'Fred Bloggs is not available due to suspension). 2) On a special list, which I think i'll put next to the injury list, just showing all suspensions. 3) On his personal info page, which could be viewed on scout reports etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:50 pm 
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Agree, listing it in those 3 places is a very good idea. That way a manager should be fully aware.

As to bookings etc, points themselves vary across the different FA's. Really the balance is less about what a booking is worth in points and more about how many bookings accumulated you think should mean a suspension as you decide the latter and make the former fit to match.

With a league of only 30 games plus two cup comps I would personally go with something like 15 points for a suspension (with 3 points for a yellow and 7 for a red) as five bookings sounds like a good middle ground to get a suspension in a shorter season compared to real football. I would add a further suspension for reaching 25 points (if players can get to 35 in a season then another there but I would hope that would be unlikely to happen as with so few games to play in and already having suspensions you would have to go some to get to 35 !).

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Cheers
Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:06 pm 
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I'm still fairly happy with 21 for a 1-match suspension, with 7 for each booking. A 1 match suspension for 3 bookings doesn't sound too harsh to me. I could increase it to 35 though or reduce a yellow card to 3 points.

The way I was planning it was similar to SS1, where when you reach 21 points, you get the 1-match ban and then 21 points are taken off your total and you start again, rather than have it carry on to a more severe penalty later on or something.

So if a player is sent off, he doesn't actually get any disc.points since it takes him immediately over 21 anyway, he just gets the immediate 3-match suspension. So come to think of it, my disciplinary points are basically just yellow cards and nothing else and I could just as easily call it 'Yellow Cards' and you get a 1 match ban when you reach X yellows (e.g 5).


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:23 pm 
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Gets really confusing when you keep referring to "like SS1" and then go on about 7 points for a booking, which it isn't and never has been :lol:

It really depends on how balanced the game is. If anything like real life then 3 bookings to be suspended is fairly harsh as bookings are more frequent in real life than SS. Hard to comment too much in relation to any of it without seeing how harsh/lenient the awarding of cards is in SS2.

That is the system in Scotland, except with 18 points and then back to zero.

As I said earlier, the number of points awarded is completely irrelevant really anyway as it is more a case of making the points fit whatever system of suspensions you want. If 3 bookings is a suspension it could just as easily be 1 point for a booking, 2 for a red card and 3 points to be suspended for points, makes no odds really as long as the system reflects whatever number of bookings, red cards and/or combination of them you want to equal a suspension :)

As to what is a good amount, again as mentioned it really depends on how frequent cards are going to be in SS2 as if like real life then 3 bookings will be a very unpopular low amount, if like SS1 no one will bat an eyelid. However, I am sure whatever points etc it ends up being it will all work out in the end as you will get the balance right (or quickly be told by managers during testing if not :wink: :lol: ).

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Cheers
Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:30 pm 
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So really, there's no standard system so I should just balance it to the game? I do intend to try to make bookings similar to real football, in which case, I think 5 cards = 1 match ban sounds fine. I like the idea of a very simple system, so I'm going to go with 5 yellows = 1 match ban. That will be it, as far as 'disciplinary points' are concerned, it'll just be 0 to 5 points. I thought the SS1 system was realistic - perhaps it was in 1991, because I thought I'd got it from real football....


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 Post subject: Re: Suspensions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Just to add 1 and 2 points respectively wasn't a serious suggestion, just pointing out any set of numbers can do the job as long as they fit whatever you want the total number of bookings etc to be. Could just as easily have typed 2 and 4 points etc

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Cheers
Rich

CHARSCOT WANDERERS.........WPL1
DEP EL CELTICO.........................WPL37
WASCISCO RED SOX...................WPL43
ZIASTE NEQUENO.......................WPL24
CASTLE ROCK FURIES..................WPL31
AYRHEAD..................................WPL25
FENWAY VALIANTS ....................WPL14
OSSUS STELLA SEI.....................ELZ56
REVELSTONE..(C 05/6, 08/9)........RH15....(175T)
Image


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