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This section is only for discussing a rewrite of the original Soccer Star game.



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 Post subject: Subs
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:31 pm
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Re : opinions in general, please just comment if you have any thoughts on these. It doesn't really matter since I haven't decided yet, so I'm just after thoughts and ideas which can then rattle around in my head for a few weeks until they come together. I worry that I might miss something obvious, so let me know, even if you disagree with my initial ideas.

Since I'm having 7 subs in SS2, it's occurred to me that it's not going to be very easy to work out when to bring players on. Added to that, it's very fiddly adding them to an interactive html sheet, because if you add a sub and his conditions, then remove him or replace him with a different player, the whole sheet needs to update and his sub conditions need to be removed. Actually this happens in SS1 at my end - if you pick an ineligible player in sub slot 1, then sub 2 will take his place and get sub 1's conditions.

So I'm thinking of having a simpler set of sub conditions that affect all of the subs. The very basics would be as simple as 'All out for a win' or 'Play for a draw' and then the AI would try to bring on subs to achieve your plan. So for example, if you go 'All out for a win' (bearing in mind that's risky) and you're a goal down, the AI will bring on an attacker for a defender. There would be various generic sub conditions such as 'Give youngsters a game' which would only trigger if you're clearly going to win and there's a youngster on the bench.

I think my original plan of loads of sub conditions for every sub would not only be difficult to program, it would be difficult for managers to understand. Giving 2 or 3 conditions to 7 subs is going to make it difficult to work out in your head who'll come on and when. Whereas simpler 'Do what's best in this situation' style subs are simple to understand and would achieve the same thing.

I could add something similar to match tactics. Along with the basic 'style' tactics (e.g long-ball or passing), there could be some sort of 'Play more defensively when winning' type 'tactics', which would trigger and untrigger depending on the conditions.

I know we don't want to over-simplify things, but at the same time, we don't want to over-complicate things either and I do think the subs and tactics would benefit from being a bit clearer (bearing in mind that with detailed highlights, you're going to see the opponents tactics, which you don't in SS1... by simply reading the highlights).


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 Post subject: Re: Subs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:48 pm
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Personally I think your new Sub Conditions are perfect!

Simple to understand and gives me exactly what I am missing in SS1..

Quite often I may be playing 3 up front, I get my two goal lead and then wish to swap attacker for defender.. So I am guessing a simple condition could exist for such a scenario.

No need to make things too difficult..

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 Post subject: Re: Subs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:24 pm 
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Agreed, the more I was thinking about this, the more it occurred to me that SS is very different to real football (obviously), but also very different to games like CM, where you're at the keyboard and are able to make 'live' decisions. My original plan was lots of conditions for each sub, so theoretically you could achieve what I suggested but it'd be complicated and that's not really what SS is all about ... plus it'd be needlessly complicated.

Much better imo to have some basic 'plans' and the AI will try to achieve your aims. Assuming I program it well, it should do what you wanted it to do, e.g if you're winning with 30 minutes to go and you'd specified that a draw was good enough, it'll bring on a defender for an attacker etc. This is something you can't do already in SS1 so it should be an improvement.

I don't think it should change the tactics though, just the subs. I was thinking of having it change the tactics to try to achieve your aims but there aren't many ways to do that anyway (maybe change passing to long-ball to try to hold onto a lead, but that's not that useful anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: Subs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:49 pm 
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Yeah I like it, I could do with something that would help me hold on to a lead :oops: :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Subs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Yeah to be honest, it's something that should maybe be considered for SS1. Not as complicated but something as simple as 'Play for win' and 'Accept a draw' and then the AI attempts some basic adjustments (probably just formation changes in SS1).

For SS2, more options and more complex (since the matches are more complex anyway).


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